God, the father???
April 6th 2009 23:20
First, I must say as an atheist I don't buy any of the mythologies concerning gods or god, whatever book he lies within. That said, it's important to engage those who do in debates that center on questions designed to get them to think about why they follow religion at all.
The vast majority of religious people follow the religion of their birth, from the area they were raised. Even if they later in life make changes, they are usually semantic, involving minor changes in doctrine. There are some who completely switch religions, but that's not too common. Some completely walk away from faith, leaving behind what they see as antiquated and wrong-headed perceptions about the world and our place in it.
What makes them leave? Usually, it is a process over time. They begin to question the faith they were brought up in. They start to look for answers elsewhere. And if they can overcome the strong desire imprinted into our genes to believe in gods (millennia seeking explanations prior to science put this in our DNA) they move into rational belief.
When a person takes that step and begins to look at religion objectively and with a rational mind, all the myths begin to deconstruct and they see just how outlandish the things they have believed in are. They see just how sadistic the story of JOB is, for example. They see all the contradictions and fallacies. A big one is centered around the story of Jesus. "For God so loved his only son."
The story goes that God sent Jesus to die for the sins of all of us, only to rise in three days and return to heaven. The bible doesn't mention whether or not Jesus was sore about everything after getting back there. Here's the big rub - Christians believe God is infallible and all-knowing, omnipotent in every way. So either that is wrong, or we have to ask some serious questions about God.
A God that created the vast universe is so concerned with the goings on down here on our little speck of a planet that he would give his only son? And why would he create a universe that would require such a sacrifice in the first place? What kind of mind would make such a scenario? Of all the possible ways to deal with humans and their "sin," why would that be his best option?
Could you imagine, for even a moment, sacrificing your child in such a manner? Even worse, could you imagine having all the power and all the knowledge and still making a universe that is set up like that? Either God is not omnipotent and had to react to events in what seems like a very reactionary way, or questions need to be asked concerning the wisdom of following such a God.
My purpose is to get believers to think, and to question.
The vast majority of religious people follow the religion of their birth, from the area they were raised. Even if they later in life make changes, they are usually semantic, involving minor changes in doctrine. There are some who completely switch religions, but that's not too common. Some completely walk away from faith, leaving behind what they see as antiquated and wrong-headed perceptions about the world and our place in it.
What makes them leave? Usually, it is a process over time. They begin to question the faith they were brought up in. They start to look for answers elsewhere. And if they can overcome the strong desire imprinted into our genes to believe in gods (millennia seeking explanations prior to science put this in our DNA) they move into rational belief.
When a person takes that step and begins to look at religion objectively and with a rational mind, all the myths begin to deconstruct and they see just how outlandish the things they have believed in are. They see just how sadistic the story of JOB is, for example. They see all the contradictions and fallacies. A big one is centered around the story of Jesus. "For God so loved his only son."
The story goes that God sent Jesus to die for the sins of all of us, only to rise in three days and return to heaven. The bible doesn't mention whether or not Jesus was sore about everything after getting back there. Here's the big rub - Christians believe God is infallible and all-knowing, omnipotent in every way. So either that is wrong, or we have to ask some serious questions about God.
A God that created the vast universe is so concerned with the goings on down here on our little speck of a planet that he would give his only son? And why would he create a universe that would require such a sacrifice in the first place? What kind of mind would make such a scenario? Of all the possible ways to deal with humans and their "sin," why would that be his best option?
Could you imagine, for even a moment, sacrificing your child in such a manner? Even worse, could you imagine having all the power and all the knowledge and still making a universe that is set up like that? Either God is not omnipotent and had to react to events in what seems like a very reactionary way, or questions need to be asked concerning the wisdom of following such a God.
My purpose is to get believers to think, and to question.
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Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling
Potter in a Harry
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by samaritan
Fringe Faith
Samaritan's Stories
There are two other points I'd like to make.
Firstly, in relation to why God would send his son to be killed. I think to suggest he wouldn't do this actually makes him a less caring person than many humans. If you knew that the next child you had would do a great amount of good and help to make the world a better place, but would eventually be killed, would you still bring that child into the world? To put it in context, if Martin Luther King's mother knew exactly the life that he would have, would she have been pleased to bring him into the world, despite knowing that he would be killed. I'm sure she would.
Secondly, in relation to why create a world in which bad things happen. We bring children into the world, despite knowing the type of world we are bringing them into. Why do we do that? Wouldn't the most loving thing to do be not to have children at all? I think we do that, because we recognise that there is good in the world, as well as bad. It is better to live in this world than not live at all. I think God thought it was better to have this imperfect world, than not have a world at all.
Also, after we have children, we send them off to school, knowing that they will be hurt and that they will hurt others while they are there. Yet still we send them. We let them grow up, with all the pain - both caused by them and that they experience - that that brings. To say that the most loving thing for God to do would be not to create the world is to suggest that the most loving thing parents can do is to keep their kids at home and not really let them live. We don't do this. In fact, we would consider this a very unloving thing if a parent did do this.
And believers do question and think. I come to my faith in God because I have spent a lot of time questioning and thinking about the issue. To suggest that the only reason people believe in God is because they haven't really questioned it is similar to Christians saying that the only reason Atheists don't believe in God is because they haven't thought it through properly. I believe that both Atheists and Christians can have really thought about God on a deep level and come to two completely different points of view about whether he exists or not.
Samaritan
Comment by samaritan
Fringe Faith
Samaritan's Stories
Comment by Morgan Bell
Science News
Deep Pencil
Business News
Movie Train
Artist Quirk
as a philosophy, the crucifiction story seems to glorify suffering, which i dont agree with, although i guess some people find it comforting to hear the story when they are suffering in their own lives, provides a bit of sense to something otherwise senseless
i do worry that too many people simply accept bad situations (domestic abuse, workplace bullying etc) because they feel there is something grand about suffering, they feel its just their lot, just part of gods plan
as a philosophy, i think "god helps those who help themselves" has much more to offer the down-trodden . . . you can be selfless without allowing yourself to be whipped to a bloody pulp
Comment by samaritan
Fringe Faith
Samaritan's Stories
However, at one point in church history you weren't considered a 'real Christian' if you believed the earth revolved around the sun. Nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find a single Christian that doesn't believe that.
Samaritan
Comment by Sherry
Sherry.. Albuquerque
Comment by Janet Moriarty