What is America doing having a religious forum for presidential candidates?
August 17th 2008 02:36
Despite what John McCain said in his closing remark about having the forum in a church, America was not founded as a Judeo-Christian country. Our founders were very, very, concerned about the mixing of church and state. The religious right will tell you America was founded to give religious freedom, but the truth is the colonies already had it. England did not force anyone in the states to go to any particular church. The revolution was much more a revolt against corporate power (over tea, first, then other issues) than religion. But that's not what troubles me the most.
You can find comments all over the place about how the night went, and who won or lost. My contention is that America lost. With so many issues at hand, what is a major forum doing in a church? And no matter how popular he is or how many people go to his mega-church, what is Rick Warren doing playing the role of potential king maker? What kind of America are we living in? Are we so hung up on a religious litmus test that this is the kind of election we are going to have?
As evangelical leaders go, Pastor Rick Warren is alot more palatable than most. He realizes that global climate change is a critical issue. He is at the fore when it comes to opposing the genocide in Darfur. Still, his place is not to hold a forum between presidential candidates. A "wall of separation" needs to be just that. I wonder, when can we expect a secular forum, where religion is not an issue, and the faith of the candidates is something they hold (or don't hold) in privacy? When can we have an America where someone who doesn't bow at the evangelical altar can have a chance to be president?
No matter how you "feel," don't you realize that to involve religion so deeply in politics is never a good thing? What's the difference between tonight's forum in a church and one in a mosque? All Americans who truly understand what freedom of religion means should be outraged. I know I am.
You can find comments all over the place about how the night went, and who won or lost. My contention is that America lost. With so many issues at hand, what is a major forum doing in a church? And no matter how popular he is or how many people go to his mega-church, what is Rick Warren doing playing the role of potential king maker? What kind of America are we living in? Are we so hung up on a religious litmus test that this is the kind of election we are going to have?
As evangelical leaders go, Pastor Rick Warren is alot more palatable than most. He realizes that global climate change is a critical issue. He is at the fore when it comes to opposing the genocide in Darfur. Still, his place is not to hold a forum between presidential candidates. A "wall of separation" needs to be just that. I wonder, when can we expect a secular forum, where religion is not an issue, and the faith of the candidates is something they hold (or don't hold) in privacy? When can we have an America where someone who doesn't bow at the evangelical altar can have a chance to be president?
No matter how you "feel," don't you realize that to involve religion so deeply in politics is never a good thing? What's the difference between tonight's forum in a church and one in a mosque? All Americans who truly understand what freedom of religion means should be outraged. I know I am.
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Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by rickb_georgia
Politics should stay out of the Pulpit and the Pulpit should stay out of Politics.
Comment by Steven Barrett's OpEd Blog
The Big O just became the Big Huhhh?
And, it's true, he doesn't walk on water.
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Obviously Steven thinks that the moment an egg is fertilized it becomes a human being and suddenly its rights outweigh the rights of the woman who carries it.
How glad am I that I don't live in a country where the rights of what is literally nothing more than a clump of cells outweigh the rights of a fully sentient human being. You know sometimes I almost wish McCain wins this election. He will drag you so far down that after his term(s), America will have no choice but to change its attitude if the respect of the international community means anything at all.
How many other western countries have political debates on "faith"? How many candidates in other western countries include abortion in their platform?
Comment by Carolyn Cordon
Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
I don't care which politician goes to which church, I just want them to to the right thing according to the laws of the land, and to do the right thing for their constituents.
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Your "grasp" of history is stunning. Why do you think the Pilgrims came to America in the first place? For religious freedom! Every time a new king took the throne (everywhere in Europe), the population was expected to adopt the kings religion. People got tired of that and wanted a country where they could always go to the church of their own choosing, regardless of who occupied the throne. (This is real history, Jeff, not the liberal re-write of it). Obviously you have not studied the actual writings of the Founding Fathers, or you would have noticed their many referrences to the "Creator" as opposed to whatever it is you think they believed in. It's freedom OF religion, Jeff. Not freedom FROM religion.
As to why Obama went to a church to try to pander to the few foolish Christians who might vote for him, boy, that's a tough one, isn't it?
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
As for you're slight of Obama....you aren't one of those kooks who thinks he the anit-christ, are you?
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
My "slight" of Obama was just what I said. He thinks that pretending to give a rats behind about Christian or Jewish ethics and values is nothing more than temporary pandering for votes. There will probably be a few people ignorant enough to believe in him. I don't think he's the anti-Christ. Obama's true character isn't found so much in the Bible as in the writings of L. Frank Baum. He's a cross between the tin man (no heart or he wouldn't approve of infanticide), the scarecrow ( because someone else writes all his pretty words. Proven by the fact that he can't seem to make a coherent sentence when asked a question without the answer written down in front of him). And of course, the cowardly lion. Too obvious to require explanation. I'm a little curious who the "man behind the curtain" is, though. Any ideas, Jeff?
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by Carolyn Cordon
Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Really Long Link
I don't know what the big deal is anyhow. I'm anti-Christ myself.
Comment by Carolyn Cordon
Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
But hey, what would I know - I still believe in the possibility of Unicorns!